print interview

Erebus Magazine 2001.

1. I understand a second part to the Make Love, And War series has been recently released. It is curious that you've decided to release a second CD, and so relatively soon. As I currently do not have this CD in my possession, in what way does it differ from and compare to The Wedlock of Roses? I presume tracks inclusive of the prior sessions have been utilized?

In the beginning there was the intention to make ONE album titled Make Love, And War, but during the recordings of this work we suddenly realized that the song material that we possessed, was too extensive and too complete as a whole to start dissecting, but likewise too extensive to congregate as merely one single work; and there were consequently three available alternatives.
One, to start compromising with the entire idea and dissect the material against better judgement; two, to turn Make Love, And War into a DCD (a record format I strongly detest); or three, act according to Rose-Marie's suggestion and turn Make Love, And War into a sister work of two akin but individual released works. And which ultimately became the resolution we embraced, turning Make Love, And War into 'Make Love, And War, The Wedlock of Roses', and 'Make Love, And War, The Wedlock of Equilibrium', as to signify the Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio and the Wedlock of Roses and Equilibrium.

2. Philosophy and ideology have always played important roles in Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio. Can you trace any conspicuous development in the lyrical, not to say musical, evolution of the project, from your first release to your most recent one? What is the fundamental core of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio, what can never be altered?

Evolution is inevitable; the direction of advancement and evolution is never clear; everything changes assuming new and improved forms of succession.

Eight long years have passed since the genesis of ORE and in the meantime there has naturally been alteration and evolution, and most certainly alteration which I am not consciously able to determine myself; evolution being the inevitable resolution of progress and prosperity.

ORE has unmistakably evolved since its genesis, musically, lyrically as well as aesthetically; becoming successively perfected and refined.
Religious symbolism and cynicism akin to Christianity and its ideological as well as spiritual incapability has become continuously more and more infrequent throughout the lyrical foundation of ORE as I believe I have unmistakably professed my convictions to an extent where it has ceased to be personally interesting as well as fulfilling. Music and lyrics have become considerably more symbolical, evolved, distinct, interesting, eloquent and capably authored.
Everything has improved to become Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio; uniting Roses and Equilibrium and the ascent of Equilibrium into Perfection and Balance; but the future is still pending and change is constant.
But if we start to examine the congregated foundation of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio whether it is akin to aesthetics, philosophy, sexuality or spirituality, I am quite certain that we are likely to discover a multitude of incarnated possessions intrinsically establishing the very essence of what is ORE. Aesthetic possessions that could not be altered or in order to prevent involuntary alteration, making ORE becoming something which it is not.
But the primary directive is, and always has been, to remain interesting for myself - no rules and no regulations. That is what truly and intrinsically establishes the foundation of ORE.

3. As I am much more interested in hearing you talk about your philosophical position than your methods of writing music or whatnot, I will jump straight ahead and quiz you on some of your thoughts, if you do not mind. An anthropologist had once said that, in his words, "morality is nothing more than an evolutionary strategy that has been with primates and continues on in humans for the singular purpose of promoting the selfish genes that direct our behavior." Would you agree with that statement? Does every human being have an innate need to adapt to or subjugate him or herself unconditionally to some moral or ethical code? In other words, is an amoral society conceivable given these psychological foundations?

Willingly adapting to any sociopolitical system is deliberately accepting a premeditated dictum of moral codes.
The past, present and future concept of morals is nothing but the individual's resignation to majority's dictum of right and wrong.

The human compulsion to subjugate herself to ethical codes is akin but however secondary to her requirement and desire to organize herself according to systematic sociological structures, structures accordingly requisite of premeditated standards and ethical codes, uniting her requirement of structure by surrendering to enforced ethics.

So is an amoral society conceivable in relation to the given psychological foundations?

An amoral society suggest a society where the individual dictum rules in favor of majority's declaration of right and wrong and each and everyone human being capable of thought and conduct, acts according to the assessments of their individual objectives and intellectual creeds rather than surrendering in acceptance to majority's dictum; a sociopolitical structure which accordingly suggests lawlessness and Anarchy as it contradicts the sociopolitical requirement of thought and action according to prospect, structure and design.

So is it possible you ask? Not on a large scale and given the contemporary psychological and sociopolitical conditions.

4. Suffering, according to Dostoyevsky at least, is nothing more and nothing less than an essential element of the human condition. Expanding on that idea, could life still be 'livable' if we humans were to consummate all of our knowledge of medicine and the human body and hence rid ourselves of pain completely? Some studied advocates of drugs or those that adhere to the motto "better living through chemistry" trust such an utopian idealism to be a worthy alternative to what, in their words, the so-called "apologists for pain" advocate. What are your own reactions to these two extremes?

The intellectual capacity of man customarily diminishes the concept of pain to a mere concept of physical suffering; whilst the condition of pain is far beyond physical. Pain surges throughout every level of the human being and has the capability of affecting the conscious being both physically, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually.
Pain can be physical, psychological, emotional as well as spiritual, so even if we acquired and utilize all the necessary medical skills by which to obliterate the concept of pain as conjectured by man, there are still one million ways in which to experience pain and suffering.

Pain is akin of the experience of being live and human (please surmise the difference between being alive and living), and consequently abolishing the condition and ability of experiencing pain, suggests an undiminished reduction of being live and human altogether.
So I strongly question that the abolishment of pain would prove particularly rewarding.

5. Many drug proponents are convinced that certain drugs are directly responsible for stimulating their creativity. As I understand it, your own stance on the issue is very liberal. In what way do drugs stimulate your own creativity, and can you personally conceive of life without them? How much of a role do they exactly play in your musical and lyrical expression?

I have never stated that drugs serve or have served a creative part of my life, merely that drugs may be utilized for the purpose of creativity.
I believe in the utilization of alcohol for the purpose of socialization, amphetamines for the purpose of sex and active conduct, or marijuana for the purpose of contentment and relaxation; but I never, without exception, utilize drugs as part of the creative process of ORE.

I believe that the decision of employing and/or not employing any selection of drugs rests in the hands of each and every being, and in the situation that anyone decides to pursue his or her eventual desires to utilize drugs; one should heed and acknowledge the risks and hence accept the consequences of ones decision.

I certainly believe there are beings as well as individuals who experience particular narcotics as creative constituents as part of their life and creative process, I am however not one of them.

6. An anonymous P.W. writes: "[...] Self-censorship preserves intact the illusion of freedom of expression and freedom of speech by allowing a spectrum of pre-selected approved choices or alternatives, while virtually guaranteeing that 'inappropriate' or 'offensive' material is effectively suppressed through an unofficial consensus operating via control of publishing and distribution channels." How do you feel about media censorship, and the invisible puppetry of the masses by increasingly smaller numbers? Is cynicism concerning the credibility of the mass media justifiable today in your view?

What incidentally is quite amusing with regards to this particular question is that I was recently invited to conduct a spoken word at the annual spoken word festival here in Stockholm a few weeks ago, and which accidentally argued the issue of 'Information wants to be Free'. So consequently in order to respond to this question, I will utilize a fragment from this very occasion.

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Information and knowledge as well as information through knowledge suggest that we are perpetually subjected to truth and fact. That all that we read, see, hear, interpret and possibly understand in newspapers, on the radio, on the internet, in magazines, on television, in educational material and in history books, is in fact uncensored truth and fact of our past, present and possibly future society?
But regardless of how hard we imagine and wish that this was true, we all know that this is not the truth.

The idea of truth and fact being the dictum of all past, present and future information is virtuous, and perhaps at one point in time, in the beginning of time, it once was, but we all know better, and regardless of hard we imagine and wish, we all know that is not the situation, and that the objective of all media, more willingly is established on nothing more, but the sole motive of profit.
Commendable perhaps from a financial and capitalistic point of view, but nothing more, and absolutely nothing less.

The collective media is as interested in the essence of truth and lies as the Palestinians and the Israelis apparently are in a resolution of peace and harmony in the Middle East.

Information is a commodity by which to accumulate profit, win wars and accomplish change. It can be as just, convincing and puissant as any weapon by which to render triumph and decline, but hardly akin or relative to the essence of either truth or lies.
Information wants to be free, absolutely and undividedly unbiased without any variety of imposed censorship. Information for everyone, emitted directly from the source of knowledge without processing, without filtering and without examination. But is information in fact capable of being that free?
Regardless of how much we wish and imagine, I believe not. Not even if the experience itself would be able to communicate, it would be intrinsically capable of contributing a completely impartial and unrestricted version of the truth.

All information is biased as even the smallest and possibly most unselfish mission of any information directed in any direction, is enlightenment. And regardless of how unselfish and noble this objective might seem, it serves a purpose just as premeditated and deliberate as any other.

Information is invariably filtered and processed to portray the very fragments of knowledge from where it has its origin.
Information is subjective and opinionated, almost without exception.
Information serves its own purposes, the intents of manufacturing opinions and premeditated morals.
Information is not relative to either truth or lies.
Information is detached from truth as well as lies.
Information does not operate to distinguish either truth or lies, and does not operate to unselfishly manifest either fact or objectivity.
Information serves its own selfish purposes of manifesting a deliberate and predetermined selection of opinionated morals and propaganda.

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So is there any reason for skepticism and cynicism with regards to the credibility of the contemporary media? I believe there is.

7. Does Sweden impart as much controversy to the topic of abortion as in the United States? What are some aspects of the Swedish government that you feel need some serious revision? Is cloning ethical?

There are naturally numerous aspects and issues argued, advocated and sustained by the Swedish government that I assuredly would like to banish and revise.
But before we start to blame the Swedish government for its political deficiencies and incapability, it is merely appropriate to acknowledge Sweden's membership in the European Union, and hence concede that the issues of revision extend beyond revision on a national level, but also necessitate considerable revision on a European level.

- Sweden should revoke its membership from the European Union. There is absolutely no need to partake in an establishment purposely attempting to become the United States of Europe; deliberately enforcing a wish for a totalitarian police state with the political authority and the military resources to oppose the Unites States of America.
- Sweden should stop manufacturing weapons unless we intend to sell them to nations and/or regimes in war.
- Sweden should cease to contribute large financial donations to underdeveloped countries in the third world. Money sustains the requirement of financial support, whilst a contribution of skill, knowledge and competence would effectuate the possibility of self-sufficiency. I believe our money is better invested nationally as far as we are obliged to pay the world's highest taxes.
And on and on and on....

There is no resembling controversy related to abortion in Sweden as there is in the US. There are naturally conservative Christian fractions who oppose the national legislation of justified abortion up to the fourteenth week, but their number and force is relatively insignificant, and any eventual threat that they pose is merely imaginary.

Abortion should be an individual, and in the situations that it is possible, a mutual decision between the two concerned and answerable constituents of the concerned pregnancy, the so-called parents.
No one else besides the impregnated woman, physically affected by the appointed pregnancy, is to decide or has the right to impose judgment with regard to this issue; especially not them who claim to speak on behalf of the unborn fetus, as we need to take under consideration the imperative difference between an unborn fetus and a child.

A fetus is not a child and a child is no longer a fetus.
A child breathes on its own, unlike any fetus whose existence is merely sustained by the protecting womb of its nourishing host.
A fetus becomes a child at the instant that it is born, but until it is, it remains a fetus, not a child, nor a human being with the alleged rights of unconditional freedom and life.

This entire conviction could naturally be argued over and over, but the natural state of birth and being born should willingly be a condition of being naturally brought to life without vast life supporting resources and which in not the situation of bringing an unborn fetus to life.

There are certainly delicate issues at stake arguing the controversy of cloning.
It would naturally be a splendid solution to breed genetically befitting hosts for carrying livers, kidneys, hearts and lungs for terminal patients in need of new and operative vital organs; as far as one feels to need to sustain life to such an extent. But is this indeed reason enough? I personally think not.

Life must be sanctioned to dictate the conditions for life.
Mankind can not raise itself, its own superficial needs and its own importance above the importance of life. Nor can mankind raise its own right to life, above and beyond the dictum of life itself.
Life will certainly prevail without mankind, but mankind won't prevail without life. And interfering with life and the conditions it has established for life to sustain, evolve and prevail, will ultimately prove existentially devastating for mankind.

8. I know, Tomas, that you have many thoughts on the conflict between Israel and Palestine, and the United States Israeli sponsorship, but do you propose any solution at all to the continued warfare? Imagining you had the power to do so, what steps would you take to resolve the situation? Can the music of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio itself be a vehicle for positive change?

It can be argued whether a factual resolution to the conflict in the Middle East will ever be conceivable and within reach.

The ideological, hereditary, territorial, political and cultural differences between Israel and Palestine are too extensive and too developed to be diplomatically resolved, and I consequently believe that there isn't any solution available and that will ever prove sufficiently operative to satisfy all involved constituents.

So which steps would I take to resolve the concerned conflict if I actually incarnated the power to do so?
I believe that the situation is irresolvable and irrevocable and that there is no resolution to be found and consequently no measures to be taken by which to resolve the past, present and future condition.
But from an imaginary perspective I believe that there are two alternatives available.
One; that we accept the contemporary condition of this world, revoke the errors of the United Nations, disband the Israeli sovereignty, and thenceforth attempt to coexist in peace, love and understanding alongside the Muslim community, or two; that we ultimately succumb to a resolution war, genocide and complete annihilation. "Let Neutron bombs be their Fireworks at New Years".

9. Changing topic, I am curious if you have read Michel Foucault's writing on the history of human sexuality? Also, are you familiar all with Leopold Sacher-Masoch's "Venus in Furs" or the works of the Marquis de Sade? These books would seem to be very relevant to the music or would at least serve as a quite appropriate accompaniment...

I have not read nor have I encountered Michel Foucault's writing on the history of human sexuality, but I am indeed familiar with the writings of Leopold Sacher-Maso and Marquis de Sade.

I am sure that these authors and the accomplishments which they have rendered seem befitting in the context of ORE, but whether or not they have actually contributed with any direct measures of inspiration beyond the accompanying concept of sadomasochism, I am sincerely hesitant to acknowledge.

10. I have recently discovered that the first Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio video is in production. Has it been completed yet? Where may one obtain a copy of it, or perchance see it on screen? I am also curious of the other videos of this director, as for example Puissance's "Global Deathrape"...

What can I say about the impending video?
It is currently being assembled and slowly but surely completed in association with video artist Mikael Prey a.k.a. Fetish 23.

The video is conjectured to manifest a comprehensive portrayal of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio akin to the sexual, ideological, spiritual and aesthetic essence it incarnates, and thus feature selections of germane material relative to all of the above mentioned concepts; directed footage as well as conceivable live material, possibly alongside the incorporation of both spoken and written words.

And what's there to say about Mikael?
Mikael is a good friend of ours who has previously been engaged in the making of videos for Death in June - Leopard Flowers, Puissance - Global Death Rape and complete full-length videos for White Stains 'Wild Orchids' and Omala 'Relics'.
With comprehensive skills and experience in the making of experimental films & video, and with knowledge and dedication to the apocalyptic and the esoteric, we figured Mikael was a seemly participant to realize this aesthetic venture in association with us.

11. Do you feel that after writing music after so many years, you still possess as much enthusiasm and creativity as you perhaps did when you first started? Are there any barriers? What inspires you most in remaining creatively prolific?

Creativity and creative potential are just as puissant as they ever were, but my inherent enthusiasm of making music and authoring lyrics naturally wavers and rarely upsurges as frequently as it once used to.

Fantasizing, envisioning, recognizing, estimating, watching, reading, smelling, tasting and comprehending life as well as sex certainly serves as a vast source of inspiration, and farther materializing and possibly canalizing these very thoughts, fantasies and desires, serves as an commendable instrument in situations of aesthetic indecisiveness and accomplishment.

12. Are there any definite plans you have now for the future of Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio? Will you continue writing music on your own?

Our contemporary plans are to enter the studio on Tuesday November 20th and record the long awaited 2 X 7" box '4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust, And Roses', limited to 444 copies and hopefully available at the beginning of next year.
Following the realization of '4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust, And Roses' we intend to initiate the accomplishment of our sixth full-length work which we hope to complete and hopefully publish during spring next year.

Aside from our musical accomplishments we are simultaneously working on the Ordo Rosarius Equilibrio video in association with video artist Mikael Prey a.k.a. Fetish 23, an accomplishment which is currently being assembled and slowly but surely completed as time passes.

There is likewise the possibility of additional and impending performances throughout Europa over the remains of this year as well as the next, possibly in Finland and Germany as things appear at present, but maybe elsewhere as well, as far as someone is willing and capable.

13. I will leave you with one final question, Tomas, and that will be all. Can you conceive of a future where all industry is automated, perhaps run by robots, and manual labor is no longer a necessity? The German Leftist philosopher Herbert Marcuse stated at one time in his career that mankind will never be ready to be liberated until they learn to differentiate "true" needs from "false" ones. What could be some examples of "true" and "false" needs for your self, and those that can be applicable on a more massive scale? I thank you for your time and effort...

We already live in a world governed, administered, supervised and executed by robots, so any such conjectured future has already surpassed us.

All true and fundamental needs can be summarized in the embodiment of Lust, Pride, Gluttony, Greed, Wrath, Envy and Sloth; each and all establish the apex of all physical and psychological needs that the human body incarnates and seeks to satisfy.
Every attempt, every undertaking and every endeavor of rendering satisfaction for any and all of them causes the world to advance, inventions to become, explorations to be conducted, and boundaries to be exceeded and transgressed. Anything else is false.