print interview

Zinnober 2003

1. A long time has passed between "Make Love, And War" and the new release ´ "C.C.C.P.".... What has happened in the meantime? Was there a need for a break?

Two years have passed since the release of Make Love, And War (October 2000 and April 2001), and over these past 24 months I have managed to complete another two works; January 2002, 4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust And Roses, and April 2003, Cocktails, Carnage, Crucifixion And Pornography.

The release and success of Make Love, And War was followed by a selection of performances throughout Europe (Germany, Portugal, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Holland, Sweden and Finland), and ultimately concluded in six months of aesthetic hibernation in November 2002.

There was, and still is, the imperative need for a break, but instead of taking time off in the sun, I am currently working more than ever.
There are several additional ambitions that I wish to realize before fall asleep, and as far as I am able, I will record another CD, realize an ORE DVD, complete a split 2 X 10” with Spiritual Front and finally release the long anticipated 4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust And Roses, before the end of this year.

2. You actually planned to release a single in the last year to celebrate your birthday. What became of that idea?

4 Life 4 Love 4 Lust And Roses was recorded on January 16th 2002 (one day before my 29th birthday), but yet remains unreleased. It was supposed to have been released for my 30th birthday this year, but despite the questions which arise, I can’t really provide any sort of legitimate explanation why it is still unreleased, only that it will be available as soon as CMI manages to find the time…. Hopefully before the end of 2003, or I will honestly see to it that it is never released.

3. In "it was the day of Lucifer rising" you again adopt the image of Lucifer. Again the Luciferian image seems to promote the idea of the individual opposed to the mass. Is this still your view of Lucifer? Has your understanding for this force changed through the years? The many-named entity seems to be a huge source of inspiration....

My understanding of Lucifer hasn’t changed.
He is the representation of intellect, will and determination.
He is the divine and human in communion, beyond the allegedly divine for which he was abolished.
He is the symbol of uprising and rebellion for the cause of change.
He is the making of individual rules instead of surrendering to preconceived dogma.
He is the acknowledgement and acceptance of all that which is human and natural.
He is the antithesis of all the human traits endorsed by our contemporary Christianized society.
Accepting and becoming more like Lucifer is becoming more human and advancing towards the stars and a better reality.

There’s a golden dawn inside us, making darkness go away.
We are uniformed and naked in the rising of today.

4. Who is your favorite "Luciferian artist"?

Kenneth Anger.

5. Together with Peter Pettersson of Arcana / Sophia you published an excellent single as "Victoria". Apart from friendship, you seem to have an intimate artistic relationship with Peter, is that right? Has he also an influence on ORE? Can we expect further releases of Victoria?

Peter and I are friends and I truly love him as a friend, but we are invariably more different than we are similar.
Peter has nothing to do with ORE, past present or future, just as I have absolutely nothing to do with either Arcana or Sophia.
We come together in the context of Victoria and this is where we find aesthetic and creative communion.

Our foregoing intensions were to release a total of eight singles and thereafter reemploy the best available material from the singles for a CD, but as a consequence of not managing to synchronize we have as far as I know, relinquished these intentions, and will depending on particular contemporary factors, realize a full length album as soon as there is enough time and interest to meet.

6. I got to know you as a very critical person that is in total conscience about his actions and responsibilities. I would like to know how you perceive the industrial / neofolk scene and how it is changed through the time.
Do you see ore still as a part of it or do you prefer to create your own realm in the musical universe?
What do you think of the typical clichés that we have to face when we enter a so-called "neofolk-event" (uniforms, black suns, runes...)??

Delicate question…. How do you pass judgment onto a community who are your devoted listeners without being too critical and hence offending and possibly angering them to the point of dislike?

The problem as far as my understanding of the appointed scene is concerned is relative to the fact that the people involved deficits any and all sense of imaginable humor. Everyone is constantly dead serious in every conceivable context and frowns at any attempt of irony.

The essence of industrial culture IS a provocation, but provocation is a matter which extends in countless directions, not exclusively akin to the employment and utilization of right wing elements. And I am almost willing to say that unless you employ SA and SS marches as part of your intros and playfully utilize the ideas and aesthetics of Nazi Germany (despite the contemporary delicacy of the concerned expression), and symbolically endorse the so called old values, you are not true to the cause, and consequently frowned at.
This attitude is seemingly constant, and neither something which has changed, nor improved or unimproved over time.

I don’t mind the uniforms; on the contrary - shirt, tie, skirt, stockings, jacket and boots, there are certainly considerably less appealing fashion statements that dressing properly in uniform; but when people stop to question why they are wearing what they are wearing, and become homogenous for a cause which they are too blind to conceive, then everything becomes alarming.
But the blindness doesn’t solely apply to the neofolk movement, but also to the Gothic community. All in black sprawling hairstyles, white make-up and black eyeliner; wearing black corsage shirts and PVC pants, or fishnet tops and lace skirts????
It’s not all that different.

I do not seek to belong.
Belonging to something (industrial or neofolk) is nothing I endeavor or something that concerns me.
Being effortlessly categorized as something categorical is more willingly a token of defeat rather than an achievement of success.

7. Would you agree that "C.C.C.P." has amore contemplative and less aggressive character than your earlier works? Of course the aggressive parts are still to be found within the lyrics, but also here I think a change has occurred. Would you agree that you are now closer to a level like in "I glorify Myself. The Perplexity of Hybris" - the individual standing above everything, watching the world and its actors from an outside view (what dear Mr. Ian Read always described as "fremdheit")? Is this the product of your personal evolution?

I guess it is a justified assessment to say that Cocktails, Carnage, Crucifixion And Pornography is a more contemplative and less aggressive work in comparison to Make Love, And War, and spiritually more akin to the sentiment of Conquest, Lobe & Self Perseverance. And even more so as everyone who has yet confronted me with regards to CCCP, are trying to decide which of the two, is the best Ordo album ever.

Evolution was necessary, it always is, but despite progression and deliberate yearnings of change and advancement, the only thing which essentially matters is trying to remain interesting for myself.
The making every new work is solely an accomplishment relative to the satisfaction of my individual ego; the undivided canalization of egoism; nothing more nothing less; and it was consequently not a deliberate decision to conceive CCCP as a reflecting, contemplating record in the vein of Conquest, Love & Self Perseverance; so maybe it is the consequence of my personal evolution, the product of me growing older and wiser….

8. There has always been a lot of Christian imagery within your art; but, of course, within a context of blasphemy.
Whilst watching your new artwork and some lyrics (like "In High Heels through Nights of Broken Glass"), the aspect of suffering and punishment - the imagery of hell - can be found.
What fascinates you about suffering and its manifestation in the Christian myth?
Do you perceive this suffering from an s/m point of view?

I enjoy the fabricated holiness of the Christian faith, the suffering Jesus, the impeccable Mary, the elevated saints; and I enjoy the contradiction of utilizing them in the context of ORE, lyrically, aesthetically as well as symbolically; it serves its purpose quite perfectly.

It is not necessarily blasphemy that I seek to portray; Christianity doesn’t represent that much to me to engage in blasphemy, more willingly an alternative way of beholding the preconceived truths of a particular faith.

I am not especially fascinated by suffering, not even from a Sadomasochistic context (more interested in the practices of domination and servitude) and from a Christian perspective, more willingly interested in the illusion of sin and condemnation; no sin = no salvation….

9. Can you decode the numbers in the booklet for us (46204240264046 etc.)?

Use your imagination.
2 = Femininity, 4 = Completion, 6 = Lust, 0 = Null.

10. "Resentment forms the soul of every man, liberation is the crime for which we hang" - is this line aimed to ORE?
Is this how you think many people perceive you and your art?

The portrait of the hanged is intended to serve as a metaphorical comprehension of how I perceive myself in relation to the men and women who refuse to think for themselves. How they would ultimately confront a situation where they no longer tolerate the continuing strive for change and liberation, and the threat that any and all free thinking libertines must pose to them.

11. What can you tell us about the private man Tomas Pettersson that we do not know yet? What personal obsession of yours do you want us to know last? Do you have a dark and hidden side (like enjoying watching football, listening to country music etc...)?

What’s there to reveal?
I like to go for long walks in the forest, and I enjoy romantic candle lit dinners for two.
I love all living creatures big and small, and my favorite colors are pink and brown.
Baywatch is my favorite TV show and David Hasselhof is by far my all time favorite actor.
I think Madonna is super, and when no one is around, I like to sing and dance to Like a Virgin and pretend that I am her. How great wouldn’t that be?
I think that all politicians do a great job; it can’t be easy making all those decisions every day and always knowing what’s best for people.
I think George Bush is a swell president and that America is the greatest country in the world. If only all countries could be more like America, everything would be so much better; people would be so happy having all those TV-channels to watch and all those hamburgers to eat….
And I think that if we all just tried a little bit harder, to understand each other better and accept each other’s differences, then the world would be such a cool place.

If anybody feels that they share my interests and my point of views, then please contact me on the following address – tomas@ordo-rosarius-equilibrio.net
Maybe you and I can make the world a better place….

12. You were often accused by the political correct for some of your lyrics regarding the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine. How did you perceive the war against Iraq and what was the media in Sweden reacting to it? Are you still interested in political processes?

Although it is vitalizing and inspiring to see people refusing to surrender to the rules and regulations of the USA and the allied forces (such as Idi Amin, Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein), and although I did, and still do, perceive Iraq and additional regimes of the Arabian community (Israel, Syria and Libya) as potential threats to the continuing existence of the world as we know it, it doesn’t justify the actions of the Bush administration; to act as judge, jury and executioner as soon as anyone refuses to surrender to the preconceived conditions of the United States of Western world.
The “Liberation War” was never a war akin to the potential possession of weapons of mass-destruction, or a war attempting to free the Iraqi people from the restraints of a totalitarian regime, (what do the western community care about misery in the third world?); but simply a war akin to the relinquishment of an awkward and uncomfortable leader refusing to submit to the rules of the Western world.
And when it finally becomes apparent that this was the sole reason for invading Iraq, one can stop to wonder why such measures haven’t been taken to invade Israel? And which inadvertently brings us to another question; who is next, France?

Sweden opposed the war, but in accordance to the diplomatic manner in which Sweden always transacts, nothing was ever uttered to enrage or aggravate anyone.
Sweden indict in secrecy and when the opinion sways, nothing has ever been exclaimed which could jeopardize the coincidental change of opinion and the making of new friends.

13. You formed the “Army of Roses and Equilibrium" with the idea of a network of like-minded people (and stated often that it is NOT a fan-club). How is this idea developing? Was it a success for you? How did people react to it?

There are more or less fifty members partaking in the Army of Roses and Equilibrium right now, and whether this is a success or not is not especially important.

I really wonder if I ever had the ambition to create “a network for likeminded individuals”, (have I ever exclaimed that?), it seems a bit too far fetched to realize something as such without any sort of membership criterions by which to separate the weeds from the seed…. What I more willingly tried to create was an establishment for the sincerely interested; people dedicated to the past, present and future operations of ORE; a forum for all them who honestly bother. And maybe it is nothing more than a fan club (outside my own imagination), but regardless of what it is, or has become, it is just about to evolve, and will shortly feature individual refuges for each member, featuring the possibility of personal postings, discussion forums, personal pictures etc., etc.; a community within the community.

14. Let’s see if you’re cultural up to date... so give us some comments on the following CD’s and movies:

a) "The Ninth Gate" by Roman Polanski –
A great movie with a twist; certainly worth two hours of your time, especially for anyone who seeks to be adopted by the legions of hell.

b) "The Thirteenth Warrior" by John McTiernan (hope you followed my advice!!!)
I did in fact take your advice, and was quite surprised as well as amused by an okay movie where naive Vikings are rescued by a considerably more sophisticated Muslim (the very Islamic Antonio Banderas????)

c) "Geheimes Deutschland" Waldteufel
Haven’t heard it so I can’t really comment.

d) "Absinthe" Blood Axis
A tribute to the mysticism of Absinthe; a good idea realized by a really nice guy, all conceived in truly beautiful packaging, but beyond the idea and the packaging it is not worth either time or dedication.
I am the green goblin; I am the green goblin….

e) "Frigga`s Web" Hagalaz Runedance
Haven’t heard it so I can’t really comment.

f) "Lords of chaos" Sampler
I only know the book which I do recommend to anyone interested in the rising and downfall of the Norwegian / Scandinavian Black Metal scene.
Quorthon a.k.a. Pugh Rogerfeldt????

g) "Weeping Willows"
Is this perhaps the indirect workings of Arne Thau?
A truly worthwhile Swedish band situated somewhere between the sound and idea of contemporary music mixed with the sound and appearance of the 40’s and 50’s.

15. The lyrics of "in the midst of flaming ruins" you again refer to the idea of a "scarlet woman". In the left-hand path tradition the woman is the gate to the divine; do you share this idea? In all your work you seem to aim for balance with the female part....

The female is two. Two is the twin. The twin is Tomas. Tomas is me. Two is company, Three is an orgy.

The female allures the male and is consequently representative of evil. Evil, as opposed to good, is acknowledged as the left hand path, the path of the indefinite and soon to be unveiled. Striving towards the understanding of the left is striving towards the understanding of the female; the female is the realization of the divine.
The woman who accepts and utilizes her strengths and capabilities in relation to the before mentioned context of Lucifer, is the realization of the Scarlet woman, and she will most certainly conquer all obstacles and elevate herself beyond the perfection of any man; as even the most apt of all men will succumb to her; men always do….

Women are aesthetically the most perfect and divine appearance there is, and I strive towards balance through excess, and the consequential upsurge of imbalance; the most perfect of all positions by which to portray balance.

16. You told me that you will work on your next record with Boyd Rice - what are your plans for him? Do you know him for a long time? And why don’t you send your music to Tinto Brass, I am sure he will love ORE and would invite you for cooperation (soundtrack etc.)

What can I say about Boyd?
Rumors, rumors, rumors…. Don’t listen to them. Time will tell.

I have never considered the possibility of Tinto Brass actually appreciating my musical accomplishments, but sending him a few copies of my heretofore accomplishments sound like an idea; why not….

17. Talking about Sex...can you explain logically why certain Swedish bands (ORE, Njurmännen, White Stains, Omala) have this incredible sexy feeling in their music, which I can't find in independent bands from other countries, not to speak about all the myths that exist about Sweden/sex, Swedish girls...what is different in the Swedish sex culture in comparison to other western countries or is this merely a myth?

What can I say? Maybe Swedes are just more horny than the average European? Something which coincidentally manifests itself in the expression of the music we make? Who knows….? Come, join and witness for yourself, the orgies of Roses and Equilibrium…. That’s the best advice I can give.

The myth however, is just a myth.
I think there are considerably more porn-shops, strip-clubs and manifested phenomenons of eroticism elsewhere in Europe, we don’t even have a red-light district in Stockholm…. but there is however a profound presence of intrinsically habitual sexuality which might be the reason for the concerned myth of the Swedish sin.
Sexual education starts early.
The sexual debate is held everywhere and in public.
The church has no tangible influence over the state or people’s sexual opinions and attitudes.
Free abortion is not an issue but more willingly a residential right.
Homosexual weddings and adoptions are already legal.
Homosexuality is relatively accepted and openly discussed.
Bisexuality relatively commonly exercised.
Swedish teenagers are quite sexually active and seemingly experiment to the extent of being relatively fulfilled already at the age of 20.
Asking a Swede for the possibility of engaging in a sexual encounter would most likely be more successful than asking a non Scandinavian the same question; sex is sex and not a lifetime commitment.

This particular issue can’t really be constructively explained, but I believe that reflecting on these attitudes and comparing them to the attitudes of Germany and/or elsewhere, provide some sort of semi-sensible explanation; either that the Sweden is more sexual or that the myth is incorrect.

18. For your live performances you have sometimes been aided by members of "Hekate". Do you have plans for a deeper musical exchange?

Associating with Hekate and using their assistance in various live situations is something which has happened on a selection of occasions, and I think we have talked briefly about the possibility of extending this collaboration further, both me and Axel as well as me and Arne, but we’ll see what happens; time will tell. It is still too early to say what the future will bring.

19. Will we have the pleasure to see you on German stages in the near future?

I sincerely hope so.
We only returned from Germany and the Wave Gotik Treffen two weeks ago, and which in fact, was our first visit to Germany for more than 6 months; so I am hoping to return somewhat sooner this time.

I am still waiting for the final judgment of Cocktails, Carnage, Crucifixion And Pornography, but as far as the new work is successful and people like it, I hope and expect that there will be the some concerts in Germany as well as Poland, Austria, the Czech Republic, Holland and Belgium.

20. Famous last words?

Two is Company, Three is an Orgy.
Life is solely as good as you make it…. Realize yourself.